JimmyJamm27 
12/03/2012 00:16

Market Value Spreadsheet

How about a link that shows what items have recently sold for at auction so that we may trade without fear of being shackled. Most of us don't keep up with the last 300 trades on a specific item and what items are posted for on AH is not really a true representation of market value since it is defined by what items are actually selling for.

Comments
12/03/2012 00:19
 noxious26 
so by this it means that at any given point during the game, if we trade wrongly for not knowing the correct price of an item we can be shackled and have to pay to be freed, seen as no where in the forum is there a pricing structure for items for players.. how are we supposed to know what is 30% either way of an original price? unfair shackling going on
i have children you cant scare me
12/03/2012 00:19
 wolfhunter8429 
agreed, it would be very nice to have some way to guage how much items price should be. you can't go by AH those prices change every day. none of us want to break the rules but we have to know what the prices are supposed to be if we are to be held accountable for staying within 30% of market value.
12/03/2012 00:22
 Mudacon26 
If we KNEW what we would get dropped I guess we COULD monitor that item. There are alot of items to try and track. And I thought "State Price" was fair market value? I want to know how it works, and what will NOT get me shackled. What about "Sparks of inception? What about Essence? They are ridiculously blown out of proportion and change regularly!!!! I like this idea, how about a "fair market avg." marketed clearly on the items?
Mudacon , AKA "Gigabyte"
12/03/2012 00:27
I dunno if I'm right or not in regards to this but isn't the base value of an item listed in the pop-up box with it's description? I generally try to set my items to that price or the equivalent of the shop price. I know its probably not right to mention other games here but Runescape actually had a great grand exchange (It's version of the auction house) price tracker... and I think it would be pretty cool if something like that was implemented in this game. I just started playing a few days ago so I have no ideas what prices are supposed to be and it would help out us newbs a great deal. Excellent suggestion JimmyJamm.
12/03/2012 00:32
 JimmyJamm27 
a link to a simple spreadsheet that had an average selling price based on say the 10 or 20 most recent auctions or even a running average of all auctions done would be more than sufficient. This would allow all players a chance to trade fairly regardless of level or time watching Auction. We are told that to determine "market Value" we simply look on Auction House and see what the item we're looking for is priced at. If there are more than one listed, then we take the total of the listed prices and divide that by the total number of items listed. Which in theory should work well enough, however here are the flaws in that theory as i see them. First if there is only one of those items in AH and the price is inflated, that is not a true reflection of market value and if sold in a personal transaction and not auction can result in both players getting shackled. Second, you have numerous items that you are wanting to sell/buy in AH. For example, let's say that they are all within 1 or 2 gold of a 5gold opening bid and a 12 gold buyout, and some have no buyout price listed at all. How are we to determine the 'market value" of this item as there is no definitive price in AH and we have no way to track what items actually are selling for, only an ambiguous number of what they are listed at at best. Third would be the people that use auction for storage and place their stuff in there at a ridiculous price. While I'm smart enough to see that an item that is listed in most cases at 10g, and is in auction for 50g is obviously there for storage, that one item, without a reference of some sort that shows recent auction sales prices, can skew the numbers drastically.
12/03/2012 00:34
 Answindar30 
so apparently we are supposed to go by AH prices...

Seeing as we do not know if an item sold at the buyout price it was listed at, we can only go on that listed price as a guide. So...

There is a level 22 Fang of Intoxication currently in the AH at 30g buyout (it is the only one there) - I can only therefore assume that to be the market price for that item, and I expect that you will be shackling anyone that completes a deal for such an item at less than 21g (market price less 30%)
12/03/2012 00:36
That would be nice to have a pricing chart to tell us what we could sell things for the correct price!
12/03/2012 00:39
 Mudacon26 
That is way off !!!!! Think of sparks of inception, they list for 18c and sell for 8-11s!!!!



CammieTwitch wrote:
I dunno if I'm right or not in regards to this but isn't the base value of an item listed in the pop-up box with it's description? I generally try to set my items to that price or the equivalent of the shop price. I know its probably not right to mention other games here but Runescape actually had a great grand exchange (It's version of the auction house) price tracker... and I think it would be pretty cool if something like that was implemented in this game. I just started playing a few days ago so I have no ideas what prices are supposed to be and it would help out us newbs a great deal. Excellent suggestion JimmyJamm.

Mudacon , AKA "Gigabyte"
12/03/2012 00:46
 wolfhunter8429 
Removed by owner
12/03/2012 00:46
 SirChrispy20 
I got put in prison for buying a hammer under market value, what is the market? The value what a person will.
You get some items way over priced is that the market value? or you get items under priced is that the market value?
There should be an official area in the AH with min and max prices so we do not get shackled.
12/03/2012 04:31
 Sir Truckula21 
I put my full support to this idea. Many times I have asked the guardians an item's "market value", they had no clue. This current path is madness. Even the guardians can not answer the question what is the market value of an item.
Dragon Dogs were forced out of the game by a casher with a personal grudge. Admin said it was cool!!
12/03/2012 05:47
 Irish22 
Sir Truckula,

The Moderators are not allowed to answer you that question, it's not the fact that they don't know. Try asking a different kind of Guard.
12/03/2012 06:23
 Sir Truckula21 
Irish wrote:
Sir Truckula,

The Moderators are not allowed to answer you that question, it's not the fact that they don't know. Try asking a different kind of Guard.


This makes the point even more valid, then Irish. The only other persons that may be asked are you, Drolevil, Hideki, and possibly Remy. (At least according to the Guardian Clan Member list.)

I see you on briefly before going to bed my time. Occasionally I will see Hideki on if I am up early enough in the day, but no guarantees on that. I have never seen Drolevil speak in chat, so that leaves Remy, (if he can answer this type of question).

If it came down to having to ask just Remy or you for every transaction, then I doubt you would ever be able to do anything again, and trades would come to a screeching halt for most of the day. (Speaking in general for the vast majority of the players, not just myself.)

The idea for a way to check current market values on an item is a good one, in which I fully support.
Dragon Dogs were forced out of the game by a casher with a personal grudge. Admin said it was cool!!
12/03/2012 21:11
 JimmyJamm27 
Irish wrote:
Sir Truckula,

The Moderators are not allowed to answer you that question, it's not the fact that they don't know. Try asking a different kind of Guard.



Which type of guard would you suggest, and how many different types of guards are there?
12/03/2012 22:05
 piko32 
You guys are overthinking this. Market values cant be set on fixed number because there will allways be things like supplay and demand, and they will go up and down. When game started items were hard to find and one guardian shild could be sold for 30 gold but now it can be bought for around 10 gold.

If somebody is selling sparks of inception at 5 or 15 silver it is for them to decide because i dont think they are breaking the rules. They are not giving things for free and to get 30% on them is hard becaus they are change owners every minute by beaing sold or bought.

For example;
If i need 2 sparks to upgrade my spell and pay lets say 35 silver for them i think i did not break any rules because at that point i wanted them i was willing to pay that price, for me that was market value of sparks at that point.

I think that rules are not broken in that kind of transaction because i did not recive anything for free and did not give gold away for nothing. If this transaction was in any case outside +/-30% i dont think there is any violation of rules because there was not intention of scam or intention to give free gold to other player. If somebody is giving more than 50 silver for spark (at this point, maybe at some time in future price will be bigger) we could say that they are trying to transfer gold to other player or there is a scam and needs to be investigated.

maybe there could be inplemented some kinde of graf feature that will show at what prices items were sold so we could have some guildlines, but i would rather see more quests, instances and things like that in game. Talk to people, join clans and make some friends and you will allways find items at right price without any worry of scams and rule violation.
13/03/2012 01:52
 Sir Truckula22 
@Jimmy, look in the clan member section of the Guardians, that is how I made my response.

@ Piko, you are correct, a spreadsheet is a type of graph. As for fluctuating prices that is not a difficult problem.

System tracks last ten (for a random number) sales of lets say sparks. It can then display those sales or average the prices and display that.
This could easily be implemented in the trade screen. Put a third column between the other two. As any item is added the system replicates the item along with the market value. Both players will then know instantly how fair the deal is. Additional steps in this procedure could even prevent someone from going beyond the 30% threshold.
Dragon Dogs were forced out of the game by a casher with a personal grudge. Admin said it was cool!!
13/03/2012 21:05
 JimmyJamm27 
@piko, we aren't really over thinking it, just pointing out a flawed system where in your instance if the MV was 7s on the sparks you mentioned that you buy at 35 for the 2, you are in violation of the rules and therefore subject to imprisonment. A spreadsheet or graph would summarily identify with ease the people who are following the rules on trades and those who are not. Without it all sales, trades and shacklings are at best subjective to what someone perceives the value to be either through always checking AH or through asking a guard what they FEEL an item is worth, which has been the answer previously, yet we are now told Guards are not allowed to answer that question. The players are left in the breech not truly knowing what prices will get them shackled and what prices won't. I feel a spreadsheet would make it much easier for everybody involed, includung the guards.
16/03/2012 23:58
Dooman18 
To be fair. Its just a really dumb rule to start with. Not to mention it completely kills the concept of an open market. (Some people sell low, some people sell high. Its how prices fluctuate)
18/03/2012 21:27
 Answindar31 
Bumping this as it has not been answered satisfactorily by anyone in "the management".

I have for sale a Canvas Belt, 7 damage, 2/23 durability - and I have interested parties. However, no-one has any idea what would be a 'fair' price for this item - nothing similar exists in the AH, and even the price of new Canvas Belts varies wildly in AH (saw one up for 95g a few days ago which is ridiculous).

1 Guardian replied to me "within 30% of the new price", which is frankly so wrong it is laughable - this item has 255 durability left from an initial 465, so even if anyone had any idea what the new price is, 30% below that would be ripping off my buyer.

Irish, Ihit, Hideki - whoever - this problem needs addressing (or better still the stupid trading rule needs scrapping). If two people agree on a price for an item then that is a fair price regardless.
19/03/2012 21:33
 Irish22 
Answindar,

So, if say you are my level 90 character, and I am your multi, and we agree on a carrot for 300g, you think that should be fair. Amusing concept.
08/04/2012 21:30
 Sir Truckula25 
Irish wrote:
Answindar,

So, if say you are my level 90 character, and I am your multi, and we agree on a carrot for 300g, you think that should be fair. Amusing concept.


Ok, point made regarding using the trade to transfer wealth from one player to another. However, the constant flux of prices could quickly get players in trouble unknowingly.

The third column idea showing current trade values would be a very useful tool to prevent trouble for all players.
Dragon Dogs were forced out of the game by a casher with a personal grudge. Admin said it was cool!!
21/06/2012 19:49
 HypnotiqRedd18 
After reading comments I must say I agree. How can players be shackled one way or another when they have no idea of the fair market value. Ig Guardians are unable to answer the question but are able to shackle one for it, then how is it fair to the buyer or seller who didnt realize they did something wrong? I am sure there are those that would take advantage of the situation no matter what because they have been in the game long enough, or watch AH enough, to know the bottom line prices for items. Those though, are not as many as the unknowing.

So, yes, a chart with the prices, that can fluctuate with the market as need be, will be a savior for not only buyers and sellers, but guardians as well who don't deserve to be hassled about a rule that cannot be completely explained to the majority's satisfaction. It is a win-win for all. Why not try it?
Life is a story so I'm writing mine the way I want it to be!
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